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Post by chiefbjules on Sept 3, 2004 10:43:55 GMT 3
We are hearing that the official figure is less than 1/3 of the actual figure of hostages (1000-1500, not 350)?  |
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Post by sirius on Sept 3, 2004 12:12:39 GMT 3
We are hearing that the official figure is less than 1/3 of the actual figure of hostages (1000-1500, not 350)? i'm not too surprised about that piece of news. it's to prevent widespread panic i guess, but it's not the best way out. as for what was said abt the interpretation of the Qu'ran, i agree that it's very subjective what is passed on to some believers and that the Imams twist the meanings ard. No religion would ever ask their followers to commit such atrocities... and not all Muslims are like these terrorists... these guys are just giving the entire religion a bad name. And creating more ill-will towards themselves. Meanwhile, the innocent Muslims are suffering too and subjected to persecution around the world for something they themselves probably condemn. |
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Post by Myke on Sept 3, 2004 14:14:06 GMT 3
They've entered the school now, lots of gunshots, smoke, bombs... it's still going on now. Sadly, I'm afraid it will cost a lot of lives.
All the children who have gotten out of it are all without clothes... poor kids!
Hope it ends well for the most people....
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Post by Teresa on Sept 3, 2004 14:37:59 GMT 3
They've entered the school now, lots of gunshots, smoke, bombs... it's still going on now. Sadly, I'm afraid it will cost a lot of lives. All the children who have gotten out of it are all without clothes... poor kids! Hope it ends well for the most people.... \ Myke I have been watching the developements on tv too and it is absolutely awful. Those poor children, and as you said the poor darlings some with only under clothing. One of the reports were saying that many had been wounded in their legs or feet. Poor poor people The distraught on the faces of the families is just overwhelming. As you say, I hope it can end well, they are saying that everyone is out now, but I don't think they really know. But at least the gun fire has stopped pretty much and also the explosions. Hopefully most of these families will soon be reunited with their children, loved ones. |
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Post by Myke on Sept 3, 2004 14:43:09 GMT 3
\ Myke I have been watching the developements on tv too and it is absolutely awful. Those poor children, and as you said the poor darlings some with only under clothing. One of the reports were saying that many had been wounded in their legs or feet. Poor poor people The distraught on the faces of the families is just overwhelming. As you say, I hope it can end well, they are saying that everyone is out now, but I don't think they really know. But at least the gun fire has stopped pretty much and also the explosions. Hopefully most of these families will soon be reunited with their children, loved ones. Beasts they are, hurting innocent children like that. I'm really horrified. Glad the gunfire has stopped now. Hope for the best, as far as that's possible in this situation. |
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Post by Teresa on Sept 3, 2004 14:54:19 GMT 3
Myke its getting worse, I guess as the situation unfolds the news is horrible
They say that the hostages left mines in the school,
so there are expolosions still going on, and its still very dangerous in the school, tthese people are to cruel, and most of the hurt are the poor children. They are saying that the poor little ones had very little chance as they were weak from no food or water, and that they were confused and not looked after at all by their captors. They also don't seem to know if everyone is out of the school as yet, I dont think the authorities are sure as to the exact numbers.
Its really a very very depressing situation, and the unfolding events, and news is just so horrible.
Unfortunately too a number of the hostage takers (maybe as many as 13) have escaped and are reported to still be somewhere in the area, so there may be more cases of horror to come, as they are saying some may have taken over one or more homes in the area.
This has really been a horror filled day.
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Post by Myke on Sept 3, 2004 14:56:40 GMT 3
Unbelievable. That's about all I can bring out anymore.
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Post by sirius on Sept 3, 2004 15:07:42 GMT 3
Beasts they are, hurting innocent children like that. I'm really horrified. Glad the gunfire has stopped now. Hope for the best, as far as that's possible in this situation. yeah...beasts would be the right word to use... |
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Post by Carolineonline on Sept 3, 2004 15:56:09 GMT 3
I just saw it on tv too.. daaamnz, the kids in underwear.. some covered in blood.. thats sooo not good And it's such an immense happening to get everyone out there and to take care of all these people...  Ive heard some of the suiesidebombers were women.. they're using more and more women for these things.. it's like ah we cant use them for making new plans anyways so we'll just use them for living dynamite..   whats going on in this world man?! |
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Post by sirius on Sept 3, 2004 16:05:45 GMT 3
I just saw it on tv too.. daaamnz, the kids in underwear.. some covered in blood.. thats sooo not good And it's such an immense happening to get everyone out there and to take care of all these people... Ive heard some of the suiesidebombers were women.. they're using more and more women for these things.. it's like ah we cant use them for making new plans anyways so we'll just use them for living dynamite.. whats going on in this world man?! most of the suicide bombers from chechnya are female...the "black widows" no idea why they use mostly women though. like the last time when they took the theatre hostage, it was mainly a female thing too. |
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Post by Myke on Sept 3, 2004 16:13:58 GMT 3
most of the suicide bombers from chechnya are female...the "black widows" no idea why they use mostly women though. like the last time when they took the theatre hostage, it was mainly a female thing too. Maybe they don't value women anyhow. That's what they're good for. In their eyes. Probably these women have such rotten lives they're willing to blow themselves up. I don't know, that's only as much as I'm able to figure out for myself. |
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Post by sirius on Sept 3, 2004 16:18:40 GMT 3
Maybe they don't value women anyhow. That's what they're good for. In their eyes. Probably these women have such rotten lives they're willing to blow themselves up. I don't know, that's only as much as I'm able to figure out for myself. u know...u're probably right. grrrr.... |
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Post by Magda on Sept 3, 2004 17:03:57 GMT 3
Gosh, I've just heard in the radio that there are many dead people  . One reporter entered the school and he saw around 100 bodies. This is so awful that I can't find words to describe it |
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Post by Teresa on Sept 3, 2004 18:44:57 GMT 3
most of the suicide bombers from chechnya are female...the "black widows" no idea why they use mostly women though. like the last time when they took the theatre hostage, it was mainly a female thing too. That's because they are 'widows' Their husbands were killed at some point in time by the Russians, and possible their brothers, and even their children, their sisters, their parents, relatives etc. The Russians have killed far more Chechnyaians than the other way around..........don't get me wrong, I not saying it makes this kind of retaliation right by any means or form. Its just how it is. The recent election which most feel was rigged does not help either, and prob instigated this horrible situation. These are desperate people living in desperate times. Russia's revevege will no doubt be just as harsh and brutal. These women are not 'used' . They have nothing to lose and will do what they are doing, and whatever it takes to revenge the death of their loved ones. In fact they are highly valued and cosidered extremely courageous. |
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Post by Teresa on Sept 3, 2004 19:03:06 GMT 3
MORE > Last Updated: Friday, 3 September, 2004, 15:37 GMT 16:37 UK
Q&A: The Chechen conflict
The issue of Chechnya has been thrust back into the limelight by a series of attacks linked to Chechen militants and an election won by a pro-Moscow candidate. BBC News Online examines the background to the conflict.
How long has the Chechen conflict been going on?
Chechnya declared independence from Russia in November 1991, but former Russian President Boris Yeltsin waited until 1994 before sending in the troops to restore Moscow's authority.
The election of a pro-Russian president was dismissed as a farce
That provoked the first Chechen war, which ended in humiliating defeat for the Russian forces in 1996.
In 1997, rebel leader Aslan Maskhadov was elected president and Russia recognised his government. But the issue of Chechnya's independence was not resolved.
On 1 October 1999, Russian Prime Minister (later President) Vladimir Putin sent troops back in after Chechen militants crossed into the neighbouring Muslim region of Dagestan in an unsuccessful attempt to start an armed uprising.
Russia's "anti-terrorist operation" also followed a wave of apartment block bombings in Moscow and other cities, widely blamed on Chechens.
What do the Chechens want?
Peace and stability are the main priority for most ordinary people.
Rebel fighters want independence, or at least self-rule, and they almost got it after 1996.
With Russian military forces out of the country, Chechens elected their own president in January 1997 - Aslan Maskhadov, the former Soviet artillery officer who had been the main rebel military commander during the war.
Under the peace deal negotiated with Moscow, a decision on Chechnya's final political status was delayed for five years.
But Mr Maskhadov was unable in peacetime to control his more radical field commanders and the breakaway republic descended into anarchy, becoming one of the hostage-taking capitals of the world.
Are there any prospects for peace?
No. The rebels show no sign of giving up their sporadic and destructive attacks.
The mid-air destruction of two Russian civilian airliners in August 2004 with the loss of 89 lives was blamed on Chechen women suicide-bombers, as was an attack outside a Moscow Metro station a few days later.
Chechen militants were also suspected of bombing a Moscow Metro train in February, killing at least 39, and have been connected to the seizure of a school in North Ossetia in September.
Chechen rebels seized a Moscow theatre in October 2002, and held about 800 people hostage. Most of the rebels and some 120 hostages were killed when Russian forces stormed the building.
There are also daily attacks on Russian troops in Chechnya - and Chechen men continue to disappear, reportedly as a result of Russian security operations.
What has become of Mr Putin's policy?
It is in disarray. Russia believes Chechnya belongs to Russia, and President Putin came to office promising stability - part of the fear is that giving Chechnya independence might lead to other Russian territories demanding the same.
So far, Mr Putin's creeping strong-man style had been tolerated, but as the violence continues, this approach is being increasingly challenged.
Moscow is not willing to hold peace talks with the rebels, and since the 11 September 2001 terror attacks in the US there has been very little foreign diplomatic pressure for a negotiated solution.
In March 2003, a referendum approved a new constitution giving Chechnya more autonomy but stipulating that it remained firmly a part of Russia.
In October of that year, the head of the pro-Moscow administration, Akhmad Kadyrov, was elected president. But if President Putin thought that a pro-Russian local leader could solve the problem, he underestimated the determination and ruthlessness of the rebels.
Kadyrov had already survived a number of assassination attempts before he was killed in Grozny stadium in a massive bomb blast in May 2004.
As for Mr Alkhanov's easy victory, critics say free and fair elections are impossible as violence continues to ravage the long-suffering republic. And unlike his slain predecessor, Mr Alkhanov - a career policeman widely seen as lacklustre - does not have a strong support base.
Do the rebels have links with al-Qaeda?
It seems quite likely.
It has been known for years that Muslim volunteers have travelled to Chechnya to join the fight, reportedly after attending training camps in Afghanistan or Pakistan.
In October 2002 a man suspected of helping to carry out the 9/11 attack told a German court that the alleged leader of the hijackers, Mohammed Atta, had wanted to fight in Chechnya.
One of the main field commanders, until his death in 2002 at the hands of Russian forces, was an Arab called Khattab - a veteran of the Afghan mujahideen war against the USSR.
He was alleged to have been in occasional telephone contact with Osama Bin Laden.
Intercepted telephone calls also led US officials to allege in 2002 that fighters in Georgia's Pankisi Gorge, near the border with Chechnya, were in contact with al-Qaeda.
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whats going on in this world man?!
. One reporter entered the school and he saw around 100 bodies. This is so awful that I can't find words to describe it